Just want to apologies for any grammatical or spelling errors, I wrote this very late (12am) after working for 14 hours today.

PS: Yes I am the Admin account holder.

God Bless all

Sounds good!

I think i understand Ian's concern. We are trying to create a mini patriarchy highly exclusive to only orthodox males, while this isn't a political movement and is multi racial, it's still in a sense politically incorrect and I can see the powers at be coming down on us, I can just imagine at lot of our guys will have traditional worldviews and right wing type politics which is not tolerated these days. As for the server location, I don't know, I'll leave it to you gentleman to decide. I would only say let's first build this thing as I am sure we can decide on server location later. We are so small and insignificant at the moment it's not an issue in my opinion. [@ianwadewatts] Yes, purpose is to be connected and more, ultimately build local church focused chapters and work together on all aspects of life and most importantly meet in real life and start developing grassroots communities. God bless

As an IT Security Pro, I can tell everyone that the location of the servers for the organization will be a critical aspect of connecting to everyone. With that being said, even if the data is not housed in the US or within the jurisdiction of a US allies (with the majority of the world being) you will limit the number of places and the potential scope for what we can accomplish. As for the organizational structure and getting a website off the ground and starting to actually build communities, it is important that we get the most bang for our buck.

If you are looking long term and have issues around finance or other business aspects, then looking to offshore or use geolocations other than North America may be of benefit. I don'e believe we are there yet, but when we do, we can migrate data and information to another location. While I understand that some will bock at doing things with the US over data privacy. It never the less alarms me in thinking "what are you trying to hide?" If we are doing things that are legal and within the law then where our servers are located should not matter.

We need to build groups on the ground and in our Parishes. We need to connect men to their communities and help guide our civilization back to a more faith centered and Christ centered society. That begins with us connecting with the men in our churches and developing groups and friendships. With this Project, we will be able to connect those small local groups to larger national, and international ones. That is the real power behind this Project, creating something bigger than ourselves and bringing along those in our local communities.

We are a grass roots effort to start bringing people and men together to effect real and lasting change. One way we can do that is by getting the word out about this Project and have others in your parishes sign up and become a part of it. As a small group we can only add so much, but as we grow we will be able to add more as each of us brings with us our own personal strengths.

We seem to be focused on a lot of side issues and not the biggest one that is in front of us, and that is the continued degradation of our western society. We see some jurisdictions facing it head on, and others are ignoring it as long as it allows them to worship in peace. This is a global issue and we need to address it globally. What effects us here in the US will effect others around the world. Just look at the impact that the state of California has on the world and culture in general. It is devastating to me to think that we would want the world to become like California. If what is wrong in the world today can be personified in a state, that would be it.

We need to stay focused and continue to bring others into this group and talk about those things that could make this project better and as a driving force for the change that we all know that we want and need to have in our world.

In Christ-

Brother Basil,

Of course being pravtical, patient&economical matters, but if you dream big and propose to build something uniquely worthy, people will find ways to fund it because its valuable and what is rare is deemed most precious. On the other hand what is common&everywhere to be had is more begrudged its cost&less of interest. I know you are an IT security professional and I don't mean to disrespect that in any way, but if what I need is a castle or cathedral and you build me an economy rental unit, I won't be too enthusiastic about paying you, if you follow my meaning. Again I mean no disrespect at all, but I am thinking of the marketing of our brotherhood to our global/local audience and what will draw the most meaningful and zealous supporters to labor to make real changes for our suffering Orthodox people. I will say that being only 2% of the US population and the largest, densest Orthodox population being in Alaska, the practical chance of us meaningfully impacting North American society as a whole and through normal mundane methods is basically none. We can however work to establish and provide specific refuges and mutual assistance networks that will help Orthodox here and around the world who are suffering in cooperation with existing brotherhoods and networks, magifying our labor's impact exponentially beyond what a handful of working guys without a fortune might otherwise achieve.

I would note that I did not bring up cryptographic technology of a more than standard depth and inaccessibility. George and you were discussing it seriously and I took my cue from that earnest discussion that we are interested in very private, secure communication. If you would read what I wrote under other forum topics starting with that on blockchain technology, you might have a better understanding about the Orthodox Christian basis for the privacy concerns of some of us. As for ''nothing illegal, nothing to hide'', well you know that what is illegal can change very arbitrarily and suddenly(and differs across international&intranational jurisdictions, especially relevant for an international brotherhood in rapidly antichristianizing and schismatizing countries - you spoke of California becoming the world,where calling a trans guy a guy can land people in jail) and as orthodox we may not find it possible or appropriate to always conform to all the whims of whichever politicians take or hold power.

Thus the ability to keep a secret does not imply immorality or insurrection but simply a sober Christian appreciation of the changing world and times in which we live. What today is still safe to discuss or do may be turn out to be/have been dangerous at a later date yet will be recorded and accessible to people who won't care so very much about the Bill of Rights or the Geneva Convention. There are Orthodox people currently languishing in prison in the US now for simply trying to talk peace between the US and Russia with the NRA leadership and some Republicans, or for making 'divisive' comments on social media or allegedly providing funding for 'divisive' protest rallies. Perfectly innocent, unobjectionable conversations by people suddenly become crimes and if not convicted for that, then they bleed you dry with lawyer's fees and you're convicted on ambiguous 'process crimes' like misrembering a date during interrogation.

I'm sure you've been watching the news or reading the internet over the last few years so you know what I'm talking about. Things that people thought were common sense&unobjectionable not so many years back are now being criminalized, religious & other freedoms be damned, so to speak. So it might be well to at least provide a safe place within the larger infrastructure devoted to free and confidential discussion, and leave the rest on a very basic introductory level group that we won't have to worry about offending even the most liberal reader or almost that. We could do generally unobjectionable discussion and the normal mundane good works organizing, socializing, and basic Orthodox educational work through it with people who for whatever reason see the need for nothing more in the service of our Orthodox, suffering brethren. Those who want to tackle larger problems and plans on the models of historical sacred Orthodox brotherhoods could use the more private and secure part of the infrastructure that will leave no reasonable fear of intrusion by arbitrary and antichristian hackers of whatever sort.

Such secure places might also store emergency aid funds for use in case of drastic and perilous changes in society when normal funds access or fundraising might not be feasable or at least reasonably convenient.

I mean, lets not forget what's promised and prophesied that Christians will have to go through in perhaps not so very distant times to come. Our suffering Orthodox brothers and sisters now and in the future will be glad to have something more than a place to socialize or swap news or whatever the heterodox persecutors still allow to do

to help them that won't make a big difference.

I know that Russian Orthodox people were grateful for what brotherhood organizations the far-sighted saints and brothers developed to help shelter, sustain,and defend them in the years leading up to the Bolshevik conquest and persecution of the formerly Christian orthodox Russian Empire. ''What began in Russia will end in America'' said the clairvoyant elder to the Russian Emigres in Harbin, China, and Fr. Seraphim Rose of blessed memory never tired of repeating it. Its time to think about what that will really mean not just for us individually but for our priests and families and parishes, and for Orthodoxy.

Even if you think you will be strong, what about the weaker sex and the little ones and the less brave?

Besides that right now the Orthodox people in Serbia/Kosovo, Ukraine/Crimea/Donbass and in Muslim countries like Pakistan and Indonesia and other hostie places could really use any help anyone could provide them, and why not us Westerners who haven't done much to stop our countries from killing and robbing and persecuting the members of Christ? We live in relative comfort but theyare in great trials and agonizing situations, hanging on by a thread of faith only. What will we say at the Last Judgment when He says whatever you did to the least of these My brethren, you did to Me and whatever you failed to do to help them, you failed to do for Me?

I put this forward for your consideration most esteemed Sargent-at-arms of the Order of the Dragon and now our brother here under the Lord and His Knight, St. George the victory-bearer. What kind of edifice should we build if we dare to struggle against a world fast fading into the dark night of Antichrist?

Obviously construction of infrastructure is tedious, painstaking work and costs matter as well as laborers but first you have to have a clear, concrete plan of what you are building. You need to build on a very stable, safe location so that laer the building isn't undermined by a sudden flood or shifting ground. Again I realize you guys are the technical professionals in IT, but I am thinking on a different aspect, of what a solid Orthodox Christian edifice must inspire,endure and provide for. I hope I respected&esteemed you all highly and properly enough.

Your lowly brother in Christ our King,

Ian

I apologize for handful of typographical errors. My Smartphone does not always keep up with or perfectly print the words and letters I type. I try to check over it but I have limited time and battery sometimes so I may miss something. Please don't let it negatively impact your impreson of my seriousness.

John

[@ianwadewatts] [@Basil] - gentleman thanks for so much insightful comments. May I suggest something? How about we do a 3 way Google hangout and take the liberty to talk about everything , share ideas and brainstorm etc? I'll record the conversation and upload it in the members only blog area. So it's kept in our circle only. But I would personally love the opportunity to talk with both you gentlemen, as you are both as passionate as I am about this project but much smarter. Let me know. God bless

Hi, George.

I don't know about me being much smarter than anyone at all (as I see it each person is uniquely needed by the other person for some reason, each having their own talents, resources, and quirks which God's grace somehow makes into a functioning symbiotic unit for His service). But certainly I do care passionately about the Orthodox Faith and Church, not just abstractly but concretely, as I believe everyone here truly does.

I am not in a good position and place to use Google Hangouts right now, and I am also a little dubious about the benefit of having Google record our conversations in general, especially with voice and video. (Big social media are basically appendages of the "Deep State" these days and the latter will twist their arm if they baulk. Also some foreign gov'ts have access through various agreements. In this age, its safer to be over-cautious than casual in what you put in their hands/reach). Its not that I don't put a lot of trust in you guys' intentions or gentlemanly confidentiality, but I worry about someone (perhaps a hacker, not necessarily a OrthoBro member) deciding they don't like me and doxxing me and leaking my comments to my employers and neighbors or media for abusing me and pressuring them to fire me or some other abusive/slanderous purpose someday. Such is the age we live in that this is a valid fear. (Snowden was able as a mere contractor for CIA or NSA or DOD on a whim to get access to anyone's computer, and how many other, less civil libertarian/principled people he said they employ!)

How about we open a ProtonMail Account and discuss whatever ought to be discussed through that, something I had planned to get anyway and which I think might benefit the group.

Your lowly brother In Christ our King,

Ian

Here's some basic info on the service:

"ProtonMail is an end-to-end encrypted email service founded in 2014 at the CERN research facility by Andy Yen, Jason Stockman, and Wei Sun.[3][4][5] ProtonMail uses client-side encryption to protect email contents and user data before they are sent to ProtonMail servers, unlike other common email providers such as Gmail and Outlook.com. The service can be accessed through a webmail client, the Tor network, or dedicated iOS and Android apps.[6]

ProtonMail is run by Proton Technologies AG, a company based in the Canton of Geneva,[7] and its servers are located at two locations in Switzerland, outside of US and EUjurisdiction.[8] The service received initial funding through a crowdfunding campaign. The default account setup is free, and the service is sustained by optional paid services. As of January 2017, ProtonMail had over 2 million users[9], and grew to over 5 million by September 2018.[10] Initially invitation-only, ProtonMail opened up to the public in March 2016."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProtonMail

"We're building an internet that protects privacy, starting with email.

"We are scientists, engineers, and developers drawn together by a shared vision of protecting civil liberties online. This is why we created ProtonMail, an easy to use secure email service with built-in end-to-end encryption and state of the art security features. Our goal is to build an internet that respects privacy and is secure against cyberattacks.

"We are committed to developing and widely distributing the tools necessary to protect your data online. Our team combines deep mathematical and technical knowledge from the world's top research institutions with expertise in building easy to use user interfaces. Together, we are building the encrypted communication technologies of the future."

https://protonmail.com/about

"End-to-End Encryption

Messages are encrypted at all times

Messages are stored on ProtonMail servers in encrypted format. They are also transmitted in encrypted format between our servers and user devices. Messages between ProtonMail users are also transmitted in encrypted form within our secure server network. Because data is encrypted at all steps, the risk of message interception is largely eliminated."

"Zero Access to User Data

Your encrypted data is not accessible to us

ProtonMail's zero access architecture means that your data is encrypted in a way that makes it inaccessible to us. Data is encrypted on the client side using an encryption key that we do not have access to. This means we don't have the technical ability to decrypt your messages, and as a result, we are unable to hand your data over to third parties. With ProtonMail, privacy isn't just a promise, it is mathematically ensured. For this reason, we are also unable to do data recovery. If you forget your password, we cannot recover your data."

"Open Source Cryptography

Time-tested and trusted encryption algorithms

We use only secure implementations of AES, RSA, along with OpenPGP. Furthermore, all of the cryptographic libraries we use are open source. By using open source libraries, we can guarantee that the encryption algorithms we are using do not have clandestinely built in back doors. ProtonMail's open source software has been thoroughly vetted by security experts from around the world to ensure the highest levels of protection."

"By using open source encryption libraries, we can help guard against back doors designed to compromise your privacy."

https://protonmail.com/security-details

"About Proton Technologies

"Since our founding team met at CERN and created ProtonMail, Proton Technologies AG has grown into a global leader in online security. Today, we are the world's largest secure email provider with over one million users. In addition to our headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland, we have support centers in San Francisco, CA, and Skopje, Macedonia. Our global presence allows us to provide 24/7 support and monitoring of mission critical applications for all our customers.

We believe privacy and security are universal values which cross borders. Inclusion and diversity are core company values. Collectively, our team of experts from around the world speak English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Czech, Macedonian, Chinese and Russian.

ProtonMail is supported by more than 10,000 individuals from around the world who participated in our record-breaking crowdfunding campaign. Additional backers includeCharles River Ventures and the Fondation Genevoise pour l'Innovation Technologique(FONGIT), a non-profit foundation financed by the Swiss Federal Commission for Technology and Innovation for the public good. We are also advised by the MIT Venture Mentoring Service."

https://protonmail.com/about

Free email accounts – now with open source code!

"Earlier today, we released ProtonMail 2.0 to the world. We are happy to announce that we are also releasing ProtonMail 2.0 as open source software! From the beginning, we have been strong proponents of open source software and the core cryptography libraries that we develop and use have beenopen source from day one.

Today, we are happy to take the next step and completely open source our webmail interface. This means all the ProtonMail code that runs on your computer is now available for inspection. We hope that by opening up our platform, we will encourage additional contributors to help us make ProtonMailthe world’s most secure email service.

Our move to open source has actually been coming for a long time. While it would have also been possible to open source ProtonMail 1.x, we felt that such a move was not appropriate given that the code was intended to be deprecated. By open sourcing ProtonMail 2.0, we are open sourcing the future of ProtonMail. As we continue to expand our private email service with mobile apps, you can look forward to more open source announcements as our code base matures.

ProtonMail 2.0 can be viewed online on Github at the link below. As a nod to our CERN and MIT roots, we are releasing under the permissive MIT license. Let us know if you do something cool with our code.

https://github.com/ProtonMail/WebClient

We welcome all feedback at security@protonmail.ch and look forward to continuing to improve ProtonMail with your help!

Best Regards, The ProtonMail Team"

https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-open-source/

Select Your ProtonMail Account Type

ProtonMail is a free email service for the public good. You can help support online privacy by selecting a paid account. Your contribution helps us support more users and continue to develop ProtonMail as free and open source software.

FREE

Basic account with limited features

We believe privacy is a fundamental human right so we provide free accounts as a public service. You can still support us by telling your friends and family about ProtonMail, or making a donation.

Our FREE accounts includes:

500MB storage 150 messages per day Limited Support

SELECT FREE PLAN

FREE

Upgrade Anytime

PLUS

Secure email with advanced features4.00 € /Month

With a Plus plan, you can have the most advanced secure email account while simultaneously supporting our mission to protect privacy online.

Our PLUS accounts includes:

5 GB storage Send up to 1000 messages per day Labels, Custom Filters, and Folders Send encrypted messages to external recipients Use your own domain (ex: john@smith.com) Up to 5 email aliases Priority Customer Support

SELECT PLUS

4.00 € /Month

Billed as 48.00 € /Year or switch to Monthly

VISIONARY

Special accounts for our supporters24.00 € /Month

You can support ProtonMail by choosing our most advanced account and get a number of special features.

In addition to all Plus features, VISIONARY accounts also come with the following:

20GB storage Up to 50 email aliases Support for up to 10 domains Multi-User Support (6 total) No sending limits* Labels, Custom Filters, and Folders Send encrypted messages to external recipients Early access to new features Includes access to ProtonVPN

*ProtonMail cannot be used for sending spam/unsolicited emails or for bulk emailing

SELECT VISIONARY

24.00 € /Month

Billed as 288.00 € /Year or switch to Monthly

BUSINESS

Encrypted Email for your Organization6.25 € /Month/User

ProtonMail Professional Plans provide hosted encrypted email for your company. Use your own domain and create accounts for employees (e.g. john@mycompany.com). Learn More

Create a ProtonMail account first, and then add multi-user support by going to: Settings Dashboard and selecting Professional Plan

*ProtonMail cannot be used for sending spam/unsolicited emails or for bulk emailing

Get Started

6.25 € /Month

Billed as 75.00 € /Year or switch to Monthly

https://protonmail.com/signup

https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/business/

ProtonMail for Business (Intro to Professional Plans)

ProtonMail’s secure email service can also be used for enterprises large and small. With our Professional Accounts, your company can now use end-to-end encryption to secure your business communications.

In this article, we will provide an overview of ProtonMail Professional accounts and how they can assist your organization in securing your email communications.

How can I use ProtonMail in my business?

Every day business employees send sensitive data through email with the assumption that the information is secure and will remain private. We have seen by the ever increasing number of data breaches (link to blog post about how the future of internet security is not holding the data), that this assumption no longer holds true. Instead a better assumption is that your organization will suffer a data breach at some point in the future. ProtonMail offers a hosted email solution to ensure your information remains secure even in the event that your business does suffer a data breach.

Getting a ProtonMail Professional Account

Signing up for ProtonMail Professional is easy, you can be up an running in a few clicks. You will first need a ProtonMail account. You can signup for a free account. Once you have your account, you can upgrade to a Professional Plan through the Dashboard tab of your account within your account Settings.

ProtonMail for Business – Benefits

ProtonMail has a relentless focus on securing the world’s information. To ensure this

• Data control through end-to-end encryption

• High Security

• High Reliability

• Low Cost

ProtonMail for Business – Pricing

No longer do you have to invest in expensive up front server costs and maintenance of legacy systems to keep your data secure. ProtonMail Professional Accounts offer simple, cost effective pricing structure that remains constant based on the number of accounts your organization needs. We do not require long term contracts – you’ll never feel stuck again.

Our per user pricing is $6.25/month when paid annually, and $8/month when paid on a month to month basis.

ProtonMail for Business – Getting Started

To get started using ProtonMail for your business you will need a ProtonMail Professional account and access to update your domain’s DNS. Domains only allow having one primary mail server meaning every email account active on your domain will need to be transferred to ProtonMail in order to continue receiving mail. Please contact us if you are looking to use ProtonMail in conjunction with your current mail system.

ProtonMail for Business – Migration Tools

Migrating your existing email data to ProtonMail may be necessary for your organization. We are working to make this process as seamless as possible for you. We currently do not offer any migration tools. These migration tools are expected to be released in early 2018.

Organizations, Users, and Administrators

Professional accounts supports user hierarchy giving organization administrators the power to easily monitor and add users to your organization as well as assign administrative privileges to other users. You can learn more about how the structure works here:Organization User Roles Details

Transitioning your Business to ProtonMail

Step 1: Setting up Your Domain(s)

Step 2: Creating your Organization

• Organization Key

• Restore Administrator

Step 3: Setting up User(s)

• User Roles

• Private users

• Catch-All Address

Step 4: Migration of existing email messages (Coming 2018)

If you still can’t find what you’re looking for, try checking out our Professional Plan FAQ.

Enterprise Support

Contact Us

Please contact us at contact@protonmail.com if you are interested in learning more about using ProtonMail for your business.

For information purposes as an example related to earlier postings:

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/swiss-bank-account.asp

How do I open a Swiss bank account, and what makes them so special?

By Albert Phung | Updated March 31, 2018 — 2:13 PM EDT

Surprisingly, opening a Swiss bank account is not that much different from opening a standard bank account. You have to fill out forms and provide documentation that proves who you are and what you do. However, due to some special circumstances regarding privacy, the level of scrutiny over providing official documentation of your identity is more strict. For example, you may need to show your official passport to provide your identity, whereas a driver's license would probably suffice in the U.S. There are also different minimum balance requirements depending on the type of account you want. These can range from a few thousand dollars to millions of dollars.

The main benefits of Swiss bank accounts include the low levels of financial risk and high levels of privacy they offer. The Swiss economy is one of the most stable in the world, and has not been involved in any conflicts in hundreds of years. Furthermore, Swiss law requires that banks have high capital requirements and strong depositor protection, which practically ensures that any deposits will be safe from financial crisis and conflict.

In terms of privacy, Swiss law prevents the bank from disclosing any information regarding an account (even its existence) without the depositor's permission. The only exception, the only way information will be revealed, is if a government agency makes the claim that a depositor is involved in a serious criminal act or is involved in some other financial issue (such as bankruptcies, divorces and inheritances). Furthermore, Swiss anti-money-laundering regulations also require depositors to provide proof regarding the origin of the funds they are placing in their accounts.

For related reading, see Pros And Cons Of Offshore Investing.

Read more: Swiss Bank Accounts: Why Are They So Special? | Investopedia https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/swiss-bank-account.asp#ixzz5Uo0AE3ba Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

https://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/banking/swiss-bank-account5.htm

How Swiss Bank Accounts Work

BY LEE ANN OBRINGER

Opening and Using Swiss Bank Accounts  PREV NEXT  

According to Swiss law, nonresidents of Switzerland who would like to open a Swiss bank account must be at least 18 years old. Other than that, there aren't a lot of restrictions. Your account can be in almost any currency, although most choose the Swiss franc, U.S. dollar, Euro or Sterling, and there is often no minimum balance required to open an account. Once you've started making deposits, however, there is a minimum balance you have to maintain that varies from bank to bank and by type of account.

Choosing a bank and an account

The Swiss bank you choose to deal with depends on what types of investments you want to make and the type of account you want have. One thing to keep in mind is unless you don't care about the privacy aspect of a Swiss bank account, you shouldn't choose a bank that has a branch in your country. Bank branches have to follow the laws in the countries in which they're located -- not where the corporate bank office is located. For example, a Swiss bank branch in the United States has no greater privacy capabilities than a regular U.S. bank does.

The type of account you open depends on the number of investments you want to have access to and the amount of money you want to maintain in the account. The more extensive the investment services and options are, the higher the required balance for the account. You can also have access to a safe deposit box at a Swiss bank.

Earning interest

If you maintain your account in Swiss Francs you will earn a small amount of interest, but will then have to pay the Swiss withholding tax. For this reason, most account holders that don't live in Switzerland have their Swiss bank account in some other currency such as U.S. Dollar, British Pound or Euro. When you do this, your money can be put into a money market fund and will earn interest there.

Opening an account

While it's usually better to open your account in person, there are many Swiss banks that will allow you to open an account by mail or fax. There are also many firms that exist to assist people in setting up offshore accounts.

Because Swiss anti-money-laundering law requires you prove where your money is coming from, many certified documents are required in order to open an account. These include authenticated copies of your passport; documents explaining what you do for a living such as tax returns, company documents, professional licenses, etc.; proof of where the money you are depositing is coming from such as a contract from the sale of a business or house; and all of the typical personal information about yourself such as your birth date, a utility bill to prove your residence, all contact information, and, of course, your name. They'll also want to know what you want to do with the money once you have the account.

If you're opening your account by mail, you'll need to have the bank applications sent to you to complete and sign along with the rest of the documents mentioned above.

One difference between opening an account in person and doing it by mail is the requirement of an apostille on the authenticated copy of your passport (and no, a driver's license won't be accepted as proof of your identity).

An apostille is a seal used to certify that an official document is an authentic copy. In most countries, you can get it from a notary public but sometimes notaries aren't familiar with them. If this happens you must either find another notary who is, or find out what other authority in your country can issue apostilles. Any country that participated in the Hague Convention designates an authority that can issue apostilles (e.g., in the United States, the office of the state's secretary is authorized to do this). The most important thing is to always make sure the seal says APOSTILLES.

Opening a numbered account

Numbered accounts are usually not as easy to open. They typically require that you physically go to the bank in Switzerland. They also typically require an initial deposit of at least $100,000 and cost about $300 per year or more to maintain. And remember, they're still not anonymous since there has to be a connection at some level between who you actually are and your account.

Minimum deposits/balances and fees

Minimum balances vary greatly by type of account (i.e., a few thousand dollars to one million dollars or more). And, banks charge differing fees based on the types of transactions and the account type you have. For example, on a basic account, international bank transfers (outgoing) might cost $3 or $4 each. They may also charge $5 to $10 when you deposit international checks to your account. Annual account maintenance costs are charged based on the number of entries in your account statement and are sometimes in the neighborhood of 0.5 Swiss Francs (i.e., $0.41) per entry.

Accessing Your Money

• Credit card: Most Swiss banks will issue a credit card with your account that you can use to make purchases, as well as withdrawals at ATMs around the world. Cash advances, however, will charge a fee (usually 2.5 percent). Use of a credit card can also be traced back to your Swiss bank revealing the fact that you have the account. These credit cards are issued differently from typical credit cards, however. Rather than pulling a credit report and actually issuing true credit, Swiss banks require that you make a security deposit that is 1 to 2 times your monthly credit limit depending on the type of account you have. The security deposit itself is held in a separate account and invested.

• Cash withdrawals: If you're in Switzerland you can walk into your bank and make a direct cash withdrawal, leaving no record of the access.

• Travelers' checks: Buying travelers' checks is one way of using the money from your Swiss account and maintaining your secrecy. They're easy to use and widely accepted, but you will have to pay a 1 percent commission on the amount of the check.

Travelers Check from American ExpressCOURTESY OF VALENTIN WITTICH

• Bank transfers: A simple way to use the money in your Swiss bank account is to request a bank transfer. But, again, you're essentially revealing the existence of your account, as well as your account number. To prevent revealing your account number and name, most Swiss banks will send money from your account in the bank's name without releasing your identity, but sometimes those types of transfers aren't accepted outside of Switzerland.

• Checks: Swiss bank accounts do offer checking (except on numbered accounts). However, if you're after privacy, you're leaving a trail of breadcrumbs directly back to you. You lose the confidentiality most people want with a Swiss account and, therefore, checks are rarely used with these accounts.

Closing your account

You can close your Swiss bank account at any time with no restrictions or cost. You can get your money immediately and invested money as soon as it is liquidated.

WHY MIGHT YOU NOT BE ACCEPTED?

While the majority of applications for Swiss bank accounts are accepted, some aren't. Usually applications are rejected either because the origin of the money is questionable or unclear, or its origin goes against Swiss regulations. The strict money laundering laws have made scrutiny of money origins and subsequent deposits a high priority.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/swiss-bank-account.asp

How Swiss Bank Accounts Work

BY LEE ANN OBRINGER

Swiss Bank Accounts, the United States and Beyond  PREV UP NEXT  

There are no restrictions in the United States against having a Swiss bank account, or any other offshore account for that matter. But, current IRS regulations require U.S. persons to reveal all foreign accounts when they file their annual income tax if more than a total of $10,000 is held in overseas accounts.

Additionally, as a U.S. citizen, green card holder or other subject to U.S. tax, if you invest in American securities through a Swiss bank account, you must declare it to the IRS.

This regulation doesn't apply to any other securities, so if a U.S. person buys British stocks from his or her Swiss bank account they will not pay any tax in Switzerland and will continue to enjoy Swiss bank secrecy.

Other "Secret" Banks

There are a number of countries with banks offering secrecy and "tax havens." The most common ones include:

Anguilla

Anguilla is a British territory in the Eastern Caribbean. It's considered an offshore business center and a tax-free zone.

Belize

Belize has offered offshore banking since 1995. Accounts maintained with these banks are not subject to local taxes and their customers are given privacy concerning their account. If the Belize courts find that funds are coming from criminal activity, however, the banks are required to release the identity of the account owner.

Bahamas

Banking secrecy in the Bahamas is not as strong as other countries that offer it. New banking legislation allows banks in the Bahamas to divulge the fact that a particular person or company has an account with that bank.

Cayman Islands

The Cayman Islands have extensive privacy laws related to banking, and, like Switzerland, officials that break the secrecy law face imprisonment.

Panama

Panama is seen by many as a very stable country offering bank privacy.

For lots more information on Swiss Bank Accounts and related information, check out the links on the following page.

UNITED STATES/SWITZERLAND INFORMATION SHARING AGREEMENT

On January 24, 2003, the United States and Switzerland agreed to facilitate the exchange of tax information in an effort to ensure that no safe haven exists for funds associated with illicit activities, including tax evasion.

This requires Swiss banks to turn over account and accountholder information in the event that U.S. officials suspect tax fraud. Part of the agreement states: "It is understood that, in response to a request, the requested State shall exchange information where the requesting State has a reasonable suspicion that the conduct would constitute tax fraud or the like. The requesting State's suspicion of tax fraud or the like may be based on:

1. Documents, whether authenticated or not, and including but not limited to business records, books of account, or bank account information;

2. Testimonial information from the taxpayer;

3. Information obtained from an informant or other third person that has been independently corroborated or otherwise is likely to be credible; or

4. Circumstantial evidence.

Source: U.S. Department of Treasury

https://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/banking/swiss-bank-account3.htm

How Swiss Bank Accounts Work

BY LEE ANN OBRINGER

Swiss Bank Accounts and the Law  PREV NEXT  

Regulations

In the United States, law enforcement agencies, the judicial system, and even private citizens can gain access to financial information of all sorts. In Switzerland, however, neither a bank's officers, nor employees are allowed to reveal any account or account holder information to anyone, including the Swiss government.

The Swiss banker's requirement of client confidentiality is found in Article 47 of the Federal Law on Banks and Savings Banks, which came into effect on November 8, 1934. The article stipulates that "anyone acting in his/her capacity as member of a banking body, as a bank employee, agent, liquidator or auditor, as an observer of the Swiss Federal Banking Commission (SFBC), or as a member of a body or an employee belonging to an accredited auditing institution, is not permitted to divulge information entrusted to him/her or of which he/she has been apprised because of his/her position."

https://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/banking/swiss-bank-account4.htm

How Swiss Bank Accounts Work

BY LEE ANN OBRINGER

Swiss Banks and Accounts  PREV NEXT  

The Swiss, and those banking in Switzerland, enjoy the benefit of having access to numerous bank types. Both a "universal" bank as well as a number of more specialized bank types make up the Swiss banking system. Swiss universal banks can provide all kinds of banking services for their clients from lending to asset management to traditional deposit accounts and financial analysis.

• The "big 2"Of the 400 or so banks in Switzerland, the two largest are Union Bank of Switzerland (now called UBS AG after its merger in 1998 with Swiss Bank Corporation) and the Credit Suisse Group. These two banks together account for over 50 percent of the balance sheet total of all banks in Switzerland. You can find a directory of Swiss banks here.

• Regional and localSwitzerland has many small universal banks that focus on lending and traditional deposit accounts. By restricting their business to one region they gain customer proximity, become more knowledgeable with local news and events and also with regional business cycles.

• CantonalSwitzerland is made up of 26 official "cantons," or states. Currently, there are 24 Cantonal banks. Cantonal banks are either 100 percent-owned or majority-owned by the cantons and must be managed in accordance with proper business principles. Their history goes back more than a hundred years, offering low-cost loans and secure investment opportunities since the 19th century. Individual Cantonal Banks operate primarily in the market of their home canton. All the Cantonal Banks account for around 30 percent of banking business in Switzerland and have a combined balance sheet total of more than 300 billion Swiss francs.

Cantons of SwitzerlandCOURTESY OF MSCHLINDWEIN GNU FREE DOCUMENTATION LICENSE

• Raiffeisen GroupWith over 1,200 locations throughout the country (the highest number of branches), the Raiffeisen Group is Switzerland's third largest bank. Raiffeisen Group banks have strong local roots and have been around for more than a century. They are affiliated with the Swiss Union, which is responsible for the Group's risk management, coordination of the Group's activities, and framework for each individual banks' business activities, which enables the banks to focus on their true business-advising clients and selling banking services.

• PrivateSwitzerland's private banks are individually owned, have collective and limited partnerships and are among the oldest banks in Switzerland. They focus primarily on asset management for private clients and do not publicly offer to accept savings deposits.

• ForeignSwitzerland also has several foreign-controlled banks, meaning over half of the company's votes are held by foreigners with qualified interests. Ownership is predominantly held by nations of the EU (over 50 percent), followed by Japanese (around 20 percent).

About the Accounts

There are many levels of bank accounts. For Swiss residents, there are "current" accounts, which are useful for day-to-day management of your money, but pay little interest; "salary" accounts pay slightly more interest than current accounts, but without check writing capabilities and/or some other services; and "saving" accounts offer higher interest, but are not very useful for many transactions. Most nonresidents of Switzerland want Swiss accounts for their investment opportunities and privacy -- the more investment options and guidance you want, the higher the required balance.

• Numbered accountsProbably the most noted and infamous Swiss bank account is the "numbered" account. As implied, these accounts have numbers associated with them (or sometimes a code word) rather than a name. Even so, there will always be a select few at the bank that must know the name that goes with the account. So, contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as an "anonymous" Swiss bank account. Even though Swiss bankers must maintain silence regarding their clients and client accounts, there are always records of ownership.

• Dormant accountsAs with anything that's "secret," you have to deal with what happens when one of the few people who know about it die. Accounts whose owners die without having passed on information to others concerning the existence of the account become dormant after a period of time. The account can be passed on to heirs but that becomes difficult if no one knows about it and the bank doesn't know you've died.Your banker could try to search for you, but that would "spill the beans" so to speak. After 10 years of no contact, however, the bank has a legal obligation to search for you. If they can't find you, or if they learn you have died, they will search for your heirs. If they can't find any heirs, they will report the account to the Swiss banking ombudsman, an official who represents the public by investigating complaints made by individual citizens.Therefore, it's important to take some measures to make sure your money goes to people you want it to. For example, give the banker another contact person that he can contact if he doesn't hear from you for a specific period of time (that person still doesn't have to know about the account). Or, you could have information about the account stored in a special envelope to only be opened when you die [Source: Swiss-Bank-Accounts.com].

A NEW BANK?

Most Swiss banks are very old -- some more than 200 years.  It's still possible to start a private bank, but you'll need $7.25 million.

https://qwealthreport.com/alternatives-to-swiss-banks-for-wealth-management/

Alternatives to Swiss Banks for Wealth Management

In this article: which Swiss banks still offer privacy, and which do not (like Credit Suisse). And where to find better wealth management services that are not subject to the same political pressure… in other words, private banking that really is private…

We’ve all heard a lot recently about the supposed downfall of banking privacy in Switzerland. I’ve personally been contacted by many clients of UBS who have been notified that their Swiss bank accounts are being closed because of the recent scandals in the US.  Many clients undoubtedly chose UBS thinking it was “too big to fail,” or maybe just because they had hundreds of sales reps in the USA, not realizing that UBS was also “too big and too exposed.”

UBS actually describes itself on its website as “one of the world’s leading financial firms”…  and therein lies the problem! It’s not really a Swiss bank at all… it’s a global bank just like JPMorgan or Citigroup.

I’m on record elsewhere as saying that Credit Suisse will have similar problems soon too. If your money is in Credit Suisse, you have been warned! It’s too easy for foreign governments to put pressure on big international banks to give up their secrets.

So what are you to do if you want to bank in Switzerland? For starters, you could go for either one of those ultra-discreet private banks. They are so discreet they don’t have websites, they don’t even have their names outside their offices. But they are certainly a dying breed. Besides, they are overrated in my view – charging enormous fees for service that as a sophisticated investor you probably don’t need or want. In the last few years many have been taken over by bigger banks like UBS and the large Swiss Private Bank Julius Baer.

A better option in my view would be one of the Swiss Cantonal banks. These are banks owned by Swiss local governments (cantons) which means they are both very strong, and very focused on their local markets. They are good for three reasons:

1. They don’t have too many overseas clients – that makes them less of a target in the first place for foreign governments.

2. They often don’t have any offices outside Switzerland – which makes it much harder to apply pressure on them

3. Being associated with the government gives them additional political clout.

Many little cantons have their own banks and the best way to open accounts with them is to get on a plane. If you feel like paying a sizeable fee for a referral, a company called Micheloud & Cie has made quite a business out of bank introductions and is currently busy promoting Cantonal Bank accounts. But remember membership of Q Wealth costs just $87 and our members do get FREE bank referrals – full details in our Practical Offshore Banking Guide 2009.

One of the bigger Cantonal banks, for example,  is Zuercher Kantonalbank, from Zurich. Here’s a link to ZKB’s Private Banking division, but the site is only in German. I’m sure they speak impeccable Englis – but not having English language publicity on the internet is undoubtedly  a calculated decision about the clientele they are seeking. You probably need a good local referral and a sizeable deposit to get in the door, but this is the kind of Swiss bank you should be looking for if your aims are privacy, class and good service at a fair price.

Many Swiss banks, of course, will no longer accept accounts from US or EU citizens at all. Who can blame them, given the recent pressures. In this case it may be necessary (and a darn site better privacy wise) to look for alternatives outside Switzerland. Neighboring Liechtensteinis no longer desirable, given that it is signing agreements with the US treasury and is working on a ‘swift agreement’ with UK tax authorities amongst others.

Austria is known as “where the Swiss go for private banking” and indeed Austrian banks have world class wealth management services. However, their membership of the European Union could be a problem. Austria is also a great place to buy gold bullion offshore.

Indeed I think to find real banking privacy today it is necessary to go further afield. Not so much to specific countries, but to banks that realise that jurisdictional arbitrage is one way to enhance their clients’ privacy. The modern boutique private bank will have highly qualified private bankers who are able to open accounts at subsdiary banks in several different jurisdictions. As an additional layer of both privacy and asset protection, offshore corporations and foundations are always a useful way of handling offshore accounts too.

I don’t have space to get further into ‘how to achieve real banking privacy’ here, but it’s the kind of thing we cover in our quarterly issues of The Q Wealth Report and at our events. You’ll also find the publications in our members’ section represent an excellent start, and I am happy to answer questions by e-mail on this topic from paid subscribers (sorry, but I just don’t have time to answer queries from people who have not signed up) Our next event is scheduled for Bantry, Ireland, so maybe you can make it? If you would like to be kept informed on such matters please take a moment to sign up to our free e-mail newsletter Q Bytes

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